Welcome back to the Words of Radiance Reread on Tor.com! Last week, Shallan probed, Adolin fought, and Kaladin stood. This week, the probing and the fighting escalate, and Kaladin lands. Like meteors do.
This reread will contain spoilers for The Way of Kings, Words of Radiance, and any other Cosmere book that becomes relevant to the discussion. The index for this reread can be found here, and more Stormlight Archive goodies are indexed here.
Click on through to join the discussion!
Chapter 85: Swallowed by the Sky
Point of View: Dalinar, Shallan, Dalinar, Adolin, Dalinar, Adolin
Setting: the Central Plateau
Symbology: Kholin Glyphpair, Nalan, Palah
IN WHICH Dalinar receives Shallan’s message in the increasing storms; Aladar won his plateau; Dalinar orders everyone to Shallan’s plateau; a tent collapses as Adolin crashes through on his back, severely damaged Plate leaking Stormlight; the Assassin follows.
… Shallan searches frantically for clues to the Oathgate mechanism; Renarin writes zeroes; “It’s come. We’re dead.”
… Dalinar holds his bleeding son, speaking farewell words of love and guidance; he stands to confront the assassin, seeking answers; the Assassin is more mad than calm; Dalinar’s Blade forms just in time to block Szeth’s.
… Adolin attempts to rise; with the help of Skar and Drehy, he begins to remove his battered Plate so that he can help Dalinar; he freezes, watching his father fight.
… Dalinar fights for Gavilar, as he wished he had seven years ago; his instincts lead him well, but it’s not enough; he finally realizes that Gavilar’s death was not his fault; Roion attacks the Assassin.
… Adolin, unarmored, runs toward his father; Roion is hurled into the sky; Adolin vainly fights the Assassin, as Roion descends and dies; Adolin and Dalinar, with accompanying bridgemen, charge and hope for luck; hope is unfulfilled, and the Assassin touches Dalinar; he, too, hurtles into the sky, and Adolin attacks again; as the Assassin turns to finish him, Dalinar descends slowly from the sky, streaming white Light; Kaladin crashes in like a comet to claim the sky, the winds, and Szeth’s life.
Quote of the Week
Dalinar did not fight for his life. His life hadn’t been his own for years.
He fought for Gavilar. He fought as he wished he had all those years ago, for the chance he had missed. In that moment between storms—when the rain stilled and the winds drew in their breaths to blow—he danced with the slayer of kings, and somehow held his own.
…
He survived.
But he did not win.
Finally, Dalinar twisted away from a strike but was unable to move quickly enough. The assassin rounded on him and thrust a fist into his side.
Dalinar’s ribs cracked. He grunted, stumbling, almost falling. He swung his Blade toward Szeth, warding the man back, but it didn’t matter. The damage was done. He sank to his knees, barely able to remain upright for the pain.
In that instant he knew a truth he should always have known.
If I’d been there, on that night, awake instead of drunk and asleep… Gavilar would still have died.
I couldn’t have beaten this creature. I can’t do it now, and I couldn’t have done it then.
I couldn’t have saved him.
It brought peace, and Dalinar finally set down that boulder, the one he’d been carrying for over six years.
I’ll… just leave that there.
Off the Wall
But who is the wanderer, the wild piece, the one who makes no sense? I glimpse at his implications, and the world opens to me. I shy back. Impossible. Is it?
—From the Diagram, West Wall Psalm of Wonders: paragraph 8
(Note by Adrotagia: Could this refer to Mraize?)
The logical first reaction is that of course this refers to Hoid, which probably means it doesn’t. There are other possibilities: Taln (or the person who calls himself Taln), Iyatil, Zahel… and, of course, Mraize. There’s just not enough information to be confident; the only real question is whether Brandon is dangling a truth in front of our noses, or whether this is another misdirection.
In looney-theory territory, I think it would be fun if this referred to Zahel-who-is-actually-one-of-the-Heralds-Returned, but I rather doubt it.
Commentary
You could just about get whiplash, trying to recap this chapter. The trademark Avalanche is reaching its peak, and the frenetic pacing of the text really reflects that. The chapter isn’t even all that long (9 pages in the HB), but there are six separate POV sections—mostly shifting perspectives between Adolin and Dalinar as they try to stop Szeth. It’s perfect, because all this action builds and builds and builds to a moment of hopeless anguish, transformed to breathless bewilderment, shattered by Kaladin’s meteoric arrival.
Shallan has one short section; let’s look at that first. Aside from Renarin’s revelation as the one who sees the future (see Ars Arcanum below), mostly this consists of Shallan getting frustrated by the lack of information: all available writing is in the Dawnchant, and they failed to bring an expert along. (Well, they did, but Navani is still on the other plateau with Dalinar.) Pattern urges her to look for a pattern, but until she finds that, all she’s got is that The Knights Radiant are the key. So for now we leave her standing puzzled in the center of the Oathgate. She’s almost there…
Back to the battle. Along with the aforementioned frenetic pacing, I was stunned by the poetry of this chapter. Once again, I shall have to quote a lot, because Brandon writes Climax superbly.
“Aladar has won his plateau! Apara was just composing you a message.”
“Really?” Almighty bless that man. He’d done it.
It’s a magnificent echo of the stirring speech Dalinar gave Aladar a couple of chapters ago: “If you survive this day, you’ll be known as one of the greatest men of our generation. Go to your men, Aladar. Lead them. Be a champion.” If you recall, Aladar gaped at Dalinar for a moment, then saluted like he meant it… and he did. This made me happy. Something went perfectly right. Thank you, Aladar.
Dalinar sends word that they are all to make for Shallan’s plateau, but in the middle of it, Cael points behind Dalinar:
“Sir, have you seen that?”
He turned, looking back toward the west. Red light flashed, lightning coursing down in repeated blasts. The sky itself seemed to spasm as something built there, swirling in an enormous storm cell that was rapidly expanding outward.
“Almighty above…” Navani whispered.
Amid flying tents and battle reports, the Everstorm builds. The rain gets heavier, then lighter, then heavier; the wind gusts; more tents shake. Dalinar sends Navani to help Shallan, and orders Roion to lead his men to that same plateau, and then…
Adolin crashed through the tent’s fabric and skidded along the stones on his back, his armor leaking Light.
“Adolin!” Dalinar shouted, dashing to his son.
The young man was missing several segments of his armor. He looked up with gritted teeth, blood streaming from his nose. He said something, but it was lost to the wind. No helm, no left vambrace, the breastplate cracked just short of shattering, his right leg exposed. Who could have done such a thing to a Shardbearer?
Not so much poetic as fearfully descriptive. Last time we saw Adolin, he was missing his helm as well as his left vambrace and gauntlet, and his breastplate was heavily damaged from his battle with Eshonai, but he’d won that when he sent her tumbling into the chasm—but then he met up with Szeth. Now it’s worse.
The scene cuts to Shallan, then back to this:
Dalinar knelt beneath a fracturing sky, holding his son.
Ahhh… I’m sorry, but I have to stop and wipe my eyes again. That has to be one of the most stunning lines in this book. And that’s saying something.
“When you take the princedom, son,” Dalinar said, “don’t let them corrupt you. Don’t play their games. Lead. Don’t follow.”
…
“You’ve been taught well, Adolin,” Dalinar said, eyes on that assassin. “You’re a better man than I am. I was always a tyrant who had to learn to be something else. But you, you’ve been a good man from the start. Lead them, Adolin. Unite them.”
This is nearly perfect in the way it shows (to my way of thinking) the relationship between Dalinar and Adolin from Dalinar’s perspective. There’s the deep, abiding love of a father for his son, and a certain amount of instinctive protectiveness when his son is injured. But there’s also the strong, confident respect and trust of one man for another: this son of his is a grown man, and a good one. For years now, he’s been entrusted with military leadership, and has been actively involved in planning sessions. He’s proven himself. At the core, Dalinar has no fear of trusting Adolin with the princedom and all it entails. He stands up to face what amounts to certain death, rock-solid in the knowledge that his son is fully capable of taking his place as highprince.
(Whether he’s correct or not… remains to be seen.)
Oddly, or not really, the first thing Dalinar does when he faces the small, overly calm Assassin is to ask questions. He wants to know… why did they kill Gavilar? Why?
“I am Szeth-son-son-Vallano,” the man said. Harshly. “Truthless of Shinovar. I do as my masters demand, and I do not ask for explanations.”
Dalinar revised his assessment. This man was not calm. He seemed that way, but when he spoke, he did it through clenched teeth, his eyes open too wide.
He’s mad, Dalinar thought. Storms.
Well, clearly Dalinar’s not going down without a fight, and he’s been in the process of summoning his Blade, so when Szeth strikes, the blow is deflected.
The assassin spared a glance for Dalinar’s weapon, then smiled, lips drawn thin, showing only a hint of teeth. That eager smile matched with haunted eyes was one of the most evil things Dalinar had ever seen.
Ouch. That’s… painful. Shifting to Adolin’s POV:
Father was fighting Szeth. Bless the man for listening to reason and bonding that madman’s Blade.
A moment of humor! In the midst of all the love of a son for his father, there’s another flash of friendship and respect: apparently Adolin had to do some vigorous persuading to get Dalinar to bond that Blade before hiding it for Amaram to find. But Dalinar is fighting the assassin, and Adolin does not want to rule the princedom just yet. He just needs to get out of the remaining bits of Shardplate so he can go help, and those bridgemen are always there when he needs them. “You two,” Adolin said, “are getting a storming raise.” I love Adolin.
And then it gets serious again:
He spared a glance for what Dalinar was doing, and froze, hands on the straps for his breastplate.
His father… his father moved beautifully.
That always gives me shivers.
Now, reread the QOTW, which may be one of the most gorgeous battle scenes ever written. Not only does Dalinar move beautifully, he moves by instinct, holding his own against a Surgebinder despite his earlier injuries. In the end, though, it’s just not enough, and (in a twist I absolutely did not anticipate) that’s a good thing. While I agree that there’s a certain amount of blameworthiness in lying drunk on a table while your brother is assassinated, there’s also certain amount of honest and commendable humility in realizing that some things are beyond your ability to control.
I couldn’t have saved him.
It brought peace, and Dalinar finally set down that boulder, the one he’d been carrying for over six years.
Pretty sure I cried when I read that.
Going on, an unexpected figure distracts the Assassin from Dalinar for a moment:
Dalinar expected it to be Adolin, perhaps one of the bridgemen.
Instead, it was Roion.
That blew me away. The careful one, the cautious one, the one who felt a bit defensive about being called a coward… He rushed the Assassin with nothing but a side sword and a handful of soldiers. Against a Surgebinder with an Honorblade. Roion, you’ll always be a hero in my book. You gave it all.
And again, the juxtaposition of words, events, repetitions, contrasts, contradictions, POV shifts… it’s such superb wordsmithy. The scene goes crazy. Roion hurtles up, screaming; Szeth kills a dozen soldiers; Roion still screams from above; Adolin jumps in with dueling moves; Szeth bats his attack away like a child’s; Roion screams until he hits the ground; Szeth starts Lashing objects around; Adolin fights by instinct; he can’t beat this thing; he’s surrounded by bridgemen; Dalinar is, too; they’re going to try to mob the Assassin; Lead them, Adolin. Unite them; Szeth Lashes himself up, then down, knocking Adolin over like a toy, killing a pair of bridgemen, healing his few wounds in moments; they’ve never had a chance against this thing; they’re going to go down fighting…
“Father…” Adolin whispered.
The assassin parried the thrust, then placed his hand against Dalinar’s chest.
The highprince, suddenly glowing, lurched up into the dark sky. He didn’t scream.
NOOOOOOOOO!!! Dalinar!!
The assassin lowered his Blade, then started to walk away.
“Bastard!” Adolin spat, dashing after him. “Bastard!” He could barely see for the tears.
The assassin stopped, then leveled his weapon toward Adolin.
Adolin stumbled to a halt. Storms, his head hurt.
“It is finished,” the assassin whispered. “I am done.” He turned from Adolin and continued to walk away.
Like Damnation itself, you are! Adolin raised his Shardblade overhead.
The assassin spun and slapped the weapon so hard with his own Blade that Adolin distinctly heard something snap in his wrist. His Blade tumbled from his fingers, vanishing. The assassin’s hand slapped out, knuckles striking Adolin in the chest, and he gasped, his breath suddenly gone from his throat.
Stunned, he sank to his knees.
At this point, you just know it’s over, it’s hopeless. Adolin and Dalinar are both going to die right here, and you’re too stunned to cry, and… and…
He blinked as he made out something glowing in the air, drifting down, like a leaf. A figure. A man.
Dalinar.
The highprince fell slowly, as if he were no more weighty than a cloud. White Light streamed from his body in glowing wisps. Nearby bridgemen murmured, soldiers shouted, pointing.
Adolin blinked, certain he was delusional. But no, that was Dalinar. Like… one of the Heralds themselves, coming down from the Tranquiline Halls.
Before we continue, let me just say that for a moment, I hoped that this was Dalinar’s own power—that he really was like one of the Heralds—or at least a Radiant. Turns out, of course, that I was wrong, but also right. Huh.
Into this silent, frozen moment:
And then, like a falling star, a blazing fireball of light and motion shot down in front of Dalinar. It crashed into the ground, sending out a ring of Stormlight like white smoke. At the center, a figure in blue crouched with one hand on the stones, the other clutching a glowing Shardblade.
His eyes afire with a light that somehow made the assassin’s seem dull by comparison, he wore the uniform of a bridgeman, and bore the glyphs of slavery on his forehead.
The expanding ring of smoky light faded, save for a large glyph—a swordlike shape—which remained for a brief moment before puffing away.
“You sent him to the sky to die, assassin,” Kaladin said, Stormlight puffing from his lips, “but the sky and the winds are mine. I claim them, as I now claim your life.”
Oh, glory!
Stormwatch
Still going: Day Zero.
Ars Arcanum
“I can see it,” Renarin answered feverishly, his voice echoing in the chamber. Ardents who had been studying part of the murals looked up at him. “I can see the future itself. Why? Why, Almighty? Why have you cursed me so?” He screamed a pleading cry, then stood and cracked something against the wall. A rock? Where had he gotten it? He gripped the thing in a gauntleted hand and began to write.
Shocked, Shallan took a step toward him. A sequence of numbers?
All zeros.
“It’s come,” Renarin whispered. “It’s come, it’s come, it’s come. We’re dead. We’re dead. We’re dead…”
I don’t know about y’all, but this was the moment I realized that Dalinar hadn’t written the countdown –Renarin had. So he’s been bonding Glys ever since … well, since sometime before Chapter 4. And this (plus recent discussions) has made me think about Renarin again.
All his life, he’s been the odd duck chicken, the one everyone thinks is just a little creepy, because his social interactions aren’t “normal” for Alethi. Hey, he probably thinks of himself as slightly weird, because he can’t be like everyone else. He finally has a set of Shards, though the Blade screams every time he summons it—but since he’s always been the weird one, he assumes that’s just his own personal problem, too. On top of that, he’s seeing the future—which is supposed to be a thing of evil, so he really doesn’t dare tell anyone: his family has enough stress, the rest of Alethkar already thinks he’s “icky” and he doesn’t need to add “anathema.” So, as usual, he bore it alone and tried not to be a burden… but now it’s all getting to be Too Much. Poor kid.
I think the reason I most Renarin to really be a Truthwatcher is that I want something to be right for the guy, finally. I want something good that’s uniquely his contribution, you know?
Ars Mechanica
This is the third chapter (I think) with Navani’s fabrial floodlights, but it’s the first time I’ve wondered: If this is a fabrial which uses spren trapped in gemstones, powered by Stormlight, does it somehow give more light than mere Stormlight-infused gemstone lanterns? From the descriptions, I’d have to say it does, but… How does that work?
Also, the mysterious Oathgate is mysterious.
Heraldic Symbolism
I can readily see Palah here foreshadowing the revelation of Renarin as a Truthwatcher, since this is the first time we find out that he’s seeing the future, and has been the one writing the countdown on the walls. So is Nalan here to foreshadow his appointment of Szeth as a Skybreaker? ‘Cause that’s all I’ve got for Mr. Just-Confident-Judge-Skybreaker-Herald of Justice. That, and maybe Szeth’s confidence. Got any other suggestions?
There. That ought to keep us busy until next week, when plot arcs briefly join before splitting again between sky and plateau.
Alice Arneson is a long-time Tor.com commenter and Sanderson beta-reader, if you count seven years as “long.” Hard to believe it’s only seven years.
I read this Reread every week but rarely comment. However, this week there is an incident with Szeth that I think will be a plot point later on.
Disclaimer: nothing I write below should be considered any sort of endorsement or sympathy for Szeth’s or Nalan’s moral codes, save this—they have a certain twisted consistency.
Szeth is obedient to the law of the Shin, which means as a Truthless, he is obedient to his masters without question (unless they order suicide or demand the honor blade). No matter how horrific his actions, Szeth is following law, even as it destroys his soul.
This is what attracts him to Nalan (whose moral code is IMO even more twisted than Szeth’s). Nalan declares Szeth to be “worthy of the Skybreakers” because he was willing to destroy himself “in the name of order,” obeyed his personal code, “when others would have fled or crumbled.” What Szeth represents is “the only genuine beauty in the world.”
While I vehemently disagree with Nalan’s ideas of worthiness and beauty, his observation about Szeth’s obedience to moral code is correct, except…this one scene in this chapter when Adolin is defeated yet still challenges Szeth. Szeth turns and prepares to kill Adolin, saying “I suppose I can kill one more, on my time.” Every other murder was either on his masters’ orders or because someone was hindering him from completing his orders. Here he has a choice. Adolin’s words can be ignored and Szeth can simply leave because, like Kaladin in the next chapter, Adolin is not his target.
Turning to kill Adolin is the first time we see Szeth violating that moral code, choosing on his own volition to commit murder. Does it mean anything? Would Nalan’s opinion of Szeth’s worthiness change if he knew? With as many murders as Szeth has committed is there any lines left to cross?
I have a sneaking suspicion this will come back to haunt Szeth.
I’ve always been struck by the symmetry of Dalinar’s unexpected finding of peace here and at The Tower:
I could have sworn you teased us with this line during a WoR build up post on Tor, but I can’t find it anymore. Something with a bunch of scattered “favorite quotes” of yours that gave us nothing by way of plot – but a ton of speculation material.
This line caused so many speculations on which son, and if that son was dead or not. It is a great sentence. Dalinar’s speech to Adolin was such a touching moment in the chaos. I didn’t pay any attention to the back blub, so I vaguely remember actually fearing for Dalinar’s life at this point.
I’m right there with you on the shivers.
I’ve been trying to find the right Writing Excuses when they talk about chapter breaks and how to build up tension in the story. Because this chapter just encapsulates the perfect example of both.
More later – I get to go give a donation to a bunch of firefighters. :-D
shard_rookie @1 – Niiiiice. I hadn’t considered that angle, but you’re absolutely correct. He’s killed a lot of non-specific targets – but always when he had orders to kill a specific person and as many others as he could. When he was supposed to make it messy and destructive. In this case, his sole target was Dalinar, and he was only supposed to engage others if he had to in order to reach Dalinar. So he killed Roion, Roion’s soldiers, and a couple of bridgemen, but only by way of eliminating people who were stopping him from killing Dalinar. Adolin… Adolin would have been outside the rules.
I can’t believe that was unintentional. It really will be interesting to see where things go from here, and what interactions Szeth and Nalan have in future.
Nazrax @2 – Nice parallel! I miss these, far too often, so it sure is a good thing someone else catches them!
Braid_Tug @3 – I think it was part of Carl’s series. Can’t remember what he called them, but it was like the thing they did with AMoL, where he picked out favorite lines with no context. I think. Now I’ll have to go look it up! Pretty sure I didn’t use it in my “Reflections” post, though.
ETA: Yes, it was in Carl’s “Glimpses of Radiance” series.
Isn’t Pattern the only “expert” who can read Dawnchant?
Does Dalinar move beautifully because he starts using Stormlight to fight?
Theory on the floodlights: Stormlight is a form of investiture with myriad uses, but it’s most common is being trapped in gemstones and used as a light source. I believe that the light it creates is just a byproduct of the investiture’s leakage back into the Spiritual Realm. You could view it as a battery with a high resistance light of dubious efficiency (representing the passive glow) attached. Hooking another light on in parallel, a more efficient, lower resistance light (like the floodlamp, or any other fabrial) drains the battery faster, and produces more light (or whatever), but doesn’t imply an increase in the amount of stored power in the gemstone.
@5: Maybe.
But when I read this line my mind flashed to friends that are top level fencers. Some of their fights are beautiful dances to watch. I can’t explain it in words.
@3: Thanks Alice.
Yes, the collected “Glimpes” are here – for those that want to re-read the fun.
And the discussion is here. Since that thread is now over 700 comments, it takes forever to load!
Discussions of this line starts at 404. Carl was having so much fun with these. Makes me wonder if Carl or Alice will get to send out the pain and torment for Book 3?
Kaladin’s arrival is the cover for this book – or the closest we get. It really does make a great snapshot for the book.
Alice pointed out something in the Commentary that raises a new question for me. The Blade that Dalinar summoned and used to fight Szeth is the Blade that “Taln” carried… If that’s the case shouldn’t that be Blade be an Honorblade? If so, couldn’t that bond be the reason Dalinar feels a sense of familiarity when consciously investing himself later on in the book? Because he’d been unconsciously doing so, for a while, similarly to Kaladin at the early stages of his bond with Syl?
Maybe I’m late to this epiphany but as I recently read that last few chapters, cuz I mean who can just read one chapter at a time at this point in the story, I realized that the Oathgate is using one of the ten Surges. Which caused me to wonder if, for all of their utility, fabrials are only able to recreate powers of the various Surges. If this is the case then the floodlight fabrial is using Illumination somehow, or at least tapping into it.
Also, I have to agree that there is a certain sense of poetry with many of the passages throughout this portion of the book. I remember on my initial reading having such huge feelings of awe throughout these fight scenes. Most especially when we’re seeing Dalinar fight through Adolin’s POV. And then just a moment of total fanboyness as Kal tells Szeth that he’s about to lay the proverbial smack down.
these two chapters are just so freaking epic. i can only imagine they were as much fun to write as they are to read.
i don’t have any insight or commentary. just basking in the awesomeness of it.
@8 re: Dalinar’s Blade – Brandon Sanderson has received a few questions at signings regarding Taln’s/Dalinar’s blade and usually only hints that something fishy is going on with that blade and the Mad man. Dalinar hears the screaming at the end of the book when he is asked to discard it by the Stormfather so it isn’t and Honorblade. Whatever happened to the Honorblade between the end of TWoK and Taln’s move to the Shattered Plains will hopefully be brought to light in the next book.
After Dalinar’s speech to his son, was anybody else sure that Dalinar was about to die?
I wonder how much Cosmere awareness Mr. T had on his super-genius day. Or other bright days for that matter. Adrotagia knows of Mraize, so the two of them must have some understanding of the bigger picture. How and when did that happen?
@8 Fabrials replicating surges makes sense.
Oathgate : teleportation
Soulcasters : soul casting
the water suckers : gravity manipulation?
heat gems : I have no idea, maybe using Friction somehow
Any others?
Re: xhapter heraldry
there’s a pretty terrible pun in fracturing sky – sky breakers
birgit @@@@@ 5 Re: Dawnchant – I believe that Navani would have been helpful as well, from Dalinar’s dreams/visions. He was speaking aloud in Dawnchant, but remembered what he was saying and gave a translation after the fact. If I recall correctly, Navani was super-excited about that, and was starting work on translating Dawnchant based on the visions.
Another great chapter. And yes @@@@@ Alice and Austin @@@@@ 11, I cried when Dalinar was saying goodbye to Adolin. That is just a father and son moment. They do have the best relationship. Father and son, comrade in arms, both leaders. Somehow, I feel that they are each other’s best friends. But of course, the Alethi society has not reached that point yet when a parent and child can be friends.
*shivers* These two chapters are just heartwrenching for me.
I’ve gotta say, I’m actually always bothered a little when I read Dalinar’s “realization” that he wouldn’t have been able to save Gavilar. So far as I can remember (and I remember pretty well, plus I just double-checked), Gavilar comes pretty storming close to defeating Szeth on his own (the punch that shatters Szeth’s jaw); am I really supposed to believe that having one of the most fearsome fighters in all of Roshar to help him wouldn’t have tipped the scales in Gavilar’s favor? It strikes a slightly sour note for me.
I have a different take on they type of justice that Naln represents in this chapter. It is not the justice we typically associate with Naln: law and order justice. Rather, IMO, Naln represents the Dalinar’s spiritual justice. For 6 years, Dalinar has blamed himself for Gavilar’s death. Prior to Dalinar’s confrontation with Szeth in this chapter, Dalinar thought that if he had been sober Gavilar would not have died. During his fight with Szeth, however, Dalinar realizes that is not the case. His drunken state did not cause Gavilar’s death. Gavilar would have died regardless. Learning this, Dalinar can know die in piece. Remember, he believes he will die. Dalinar has received his own spiritual justice.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
aka the musespren
I know this may not be the most appropriate chapter for it, but it just occurred to me, and I wasn’t sure if any later chapters would be better, so here goes my Looney Theory for SA3 – I reckon the pieces all fit :P
Kaladin’s journey has so far been about him learning, resisting and then taking on the Windrunner Ideals. 3 down, 2 to go. I think he’s learned from his mistakes, and his future struggles with them won’t be as severe, but they’ll still be major plot points to be negotiated.
So Adolin gets exiled for a short time (weeks or months only), and in this time the Shalladin ship starts to build up steam. But Syl indicates problems here and then Kaladin realises that unfortunately the next WR Ideal is “I will not hit on another guy’s girl, even if she’s hot” (wording may likely differ slightly, and refer to protecting)
This resolves the tension forshadowed, and avoids any tropey triangles in a way that fits the characters, and that I haven’t seen in fiction very often
Shadolin FTW! (and Kalajenet too!)
I know that there are no official changes in this chapter. However, I think it is very important to talk about how the final scene of this chapter fits with the changes to the later editions of Words of Radiance.
Brandon’s stated reason for the changes to come is that “Kaladin is about protection, not vengeance”. However, he still left Kaladin’s final line unchanged:
This line is horrible, as it shows Kaladin completely in the thrall of vengeance. This, more than any thing else in the later chapters, complete undermines Kaladin and his growth throughout this entire book.
I did not like this line before the change, because it was so out of character. The fact that Brandon went and rewrote the Szeth confrontation while leaving this line untouched makes it even worse.
@19: “I will protect my best friend’s relationship, even against myself” maybe?
Joking aside, somehow I don’t think that would be his next oath…mostly because I think Kaladin would start off too on-board for it already. After all, he’s definitely the type to “give up the girl” for a friend, even if he needs to be grumpy about it later.
As for the chapter itself, love it so. In a lot of ways it’s a nice reflection of last chapter’s development for Kaladin for the entire cast: they’re all brought to the nadir of despair after holding on through sheer resolve, when boom, powered up Kaladin to save the day. Dalinar and Adolin’s interactions are brilliant and sad, as is appropriate for Dalinar effectively handing down a verbal will to Adolin. And while he may not be right about Adolin, it’s completely consistent that in this last moment (from his perspective) he gives him a final speech to try and inspire him. Fortunate for him, Kaladin was not too late…barely.
And poor Roion. It’s one of those cases where he always did feel like a bit of a disposable Highprince, but that doesn’t change his death from feeling worthwhile and being a good capstone to an abbreviated character arc (because he could only get so much considering).
@5,7: Dalinar moving beautifully I attribute to him basically battling purely on all the instincts and experience he’s built up over a long life. That said it would be consistent with how we’ve heard Stormlight described: it refining and improving said battle motions. But I feel like this is Dalinar basically doing his swan song (swan…performance? Swan battle ballet?), throwing his all into a fight to see where things would have stood, which is why he is at peace when he realizes he couldn’t have defeated Szeth.
In regards to Szeth himself, between this and then his encounter with Kaladin, he’s developing in a poor way (but one that’s important). Nalan praises Szeth for sticking to his code, but it’s clear that by this point Szeth realizes it as what he’s made it: dodging responsibility. And the guilt he’s put off by doing that has built up to the point where with Adolin he makes a decision that will probably haunt him (and would have done worse if he had pulled it off): Szeth can’t live with the guilt from the killing anymore, so he has to become alright with it…he has to kill of his own volition.
I almost feel sorry for him.
@17. That may be true but Dalinar would have no knowledge of that. All he knows is that he, his son, the bridgemen and Roin are some of the best fighters on the planet yet all of them combined are not enough to beat Szeth.
@20. I get that but what choice does he have? Szeth has made it pretty clear he is going to kill Dalinar at all costs and the only way to stop him is to kill him. I don’t think the almighty or anyone else could really fault him for taking a bit of pride in having the power to actually be able to do it.
Re: Kaladin’s next oath
I think the oath will have something to do with stepping back and allowing others to protect themselves. Not in a “sorry pal, you’re on your own” way, but in a “fight your own battles, you’ll be better for it” sort of way. I could see him trying to get close to Shallan and be overprotective, when she can clearly care for herself.
@17 I believe that Szeth got far more dangerous the more he killed. Considering the assassination of Gavilar was his first major attack he probably learned and became more competent. This when he fights Dalinar he is far more dangerous.
I agree though that if he was aware during the feast Gavilar would probably still be alice.
Every time I read this chapter (and I’ve read it a lot… this book may have my favorite avalanche yet) I always hear echoes of Wheel of Time in the boulder comment… “Duty is heavier than a mountain, death is lighter than a feather.” Which then makes my mind draw parallels between Dalinar and Lan… and I traipse off in my mind to an arena where the two best swordsmen of two of my most favorite series spar.
@20: I wouldn’t say Kaladin saying a one-liner while flush with Stormlight undermines his character arc, especially because his arc of being a protector is only 2/4 done if you consider it from the point of oaths he hasn’t said yet. And that’s if you take it on face value: it’s worth noting that regardless of how much Kaladin may want vengeance, he also wants to scare off Szeth so he’s away from the people Kaladin needs to protect. And while Kaladin still appears confident right now, there’s no way he can be sure he can even effectively battle Szeth at the moment without it becoming deadly – it’s only the next couple chapters where Kaladin really gets to test his mettle versus the assassin.
@24: I like that. I’ve always personally wondered if one of his last 2 oaths wouldn’t involve self-preservation as well – one of Kaladin’s failings that haven’t been addressed at all is his tendency to push himself and do more than he should. My problem being I’m not sure if that would properly align within his current oaths as a Windrunner – so far the protection has been more tangible than that.
Re: Seaworthiness of Shalladin
Sorry, mates, she’ll never float with an Honorspren and a Cryptic at the helm.
My own theory on Kaladin’s last two oaths are that they don’t have anything to do with protecting at all. Rather, I predict that they have to do with leadership. The big chart that lists surges/orders/body focii/etc, lists Protection and Leading as the two attributes associated with Windrunners. We already know that all 10 orders share the 1st Ideal, and my guess is that the remaining four ideals are broken up into 2 ideals each for each of the associated attributes for the remaining orders* (e.g. for Windrunners, 2nd and 3rd Ideal are about Protection, 4th and 5th about Leadership)
* With the obvious exception of Lightweavers with their truths.
@6 I agree. Clearly the floodlights after expending Stormlight are “just” light, so there can be more of it.
@8 interesting thoughts
and finally, Kalarysn FTW
This is the sort of writing that makes a fantasy “epic”. The characters are in the moment of no return when they make their choices and show us who they are as they prepare to die. Whether or not they actually die in the story doesn’t matter because they believed they would die and fought anyway. I would most likely just sit down and wait for the chop that ends it all.
@12 Mr T: snort, snicker, I love it.
@8- I agree. Dalinar as a bondsmith gets adhesion and tension. Adhesion we’ve seen from Kal, and IMHO, tension is what drives spanreeds. Physically, tension is just a method for transferring force, which is exactly what we’ve seen.
@23 I see it the same way. There’s no other way for Kaladin to protect Dalinar except by killing Szeth, especially since he keeps coming back. And for the first time he actually has a chance to fulfill that duty.
@8 , @13 Good point – we’ve seen fabrials manipulate gravity with the rain tent for archers and the floating platform much earlier. There’s the healing (regrowth) fabrial from Dalinar’s visions. I suspect fabrials aren’t limited to the main 10 surges though; any physical effect (e.g. heat) seems fair game.
I’m not sure Adolin is quite ready to take over from Dalinar yet, given that the first thing he does after they “lose” the fight is charge back into the fray and basically guarantee he’ll get killed too. His actions certainly are understandable, but you’d hope a highprince’s successor would last more than one minute in their new role, haha.
@20 Kaladin claiming his life could just mean that he claims the right to decide whether Szeth dies or not. In the end (or the revision, at least), he decides not to kill Szeth. He chose to let him live, which, in my mind, supersedes and words he spoke earlier, especially, because they are ambiguous, and stated in the heat of the moment.
@1 Wasn’t there one other time that Szeth was angry and hoped that people would try to stop him so he could kill them? In this case, I think he’s so unstable, because deep down he understands that he was probably right about the return of the Radiants, and he’s doing everything he can to make himself believe that he really is Truthless. He’s convinced himself that he was being forced to kill as a punishment for being Truthless, but if he was right, now if he was right then he’s morally responsible for everything he’s done, rather than passing it off on his owners, and that is making him crack. It’s the same thing that both Taravangian and Dalinar saw in him.
@17, you are forgetting a bunch of stuff. In tWoK, when Szeth went to assassinate the king of Jah Keved, the king had thought he was setting trap for Szeth by having present 2 fully armored shardbearers plus the king himself with a shardblade plus a roomful of soldiers bearing anti-shardblade shields. Yet, Szeth killed them all, over 30 people, including the king. What you may be forgetting is that it is almost impossible to kill someone filled with stormlight; they heal instantaneously from any wounds. In the fight with Gavilar Szeth got hit with a mightly blow from Gavilar’s armored fist, a blow that would killed anyone else. Yet Szeth healed almost instantly from his torn insides. Even the then very inexperienced Kaladin healed his hand after it was “killed” by a honorblade slice, and in this very fight with Dalinar Szeth healed himself from spear thrusts. What Dalinar just realized is that, no matter how skilled he and Gavilar might have been, they still couldn’t have defeated a creature that can heal itself no matter the blows or sword thrusts it suffers.
Laddybug @@@@@ 33 – I see your point with Adolin as the new High Prince after Dalinar basically gave him the princedom. And him newly minted but already back into the thic of things. Well, it’s actually not unprecedented about a new man in charge going back into the fray. The father of Capt. James T. Kirk was only captain for 10 minutes and he saved hundreds of life including his newborn son. :-) well, just saying… Anyway, I’m just glad that Adolin lived with the timely arrival of Kaladin.
@35 if I’m remembering correctly and it’s been a decent time since I read way of kings. Szeth bad been almost out of stormlight during gavilars murder. And during his attack on the Jah Kevid kingdom he had several pouches of infused gemstones. The last point was he said in his head even he couldn’t heal from a shardblade wound.
Again most of this is from memory.
@36 It’s not about rejoining the battle – after all, Dalinar did that plenty. It’s about attempting suicide-by-assassin. He couldn’t beat Szeth in or out of Shardplate, his father couldn’t beat him, and they couldn’t beat him together and with a bunch of Bridgemen. He’s not just joining the fray, he’s letting his anger goad him into attempting vengeance which is doomed to fail.
Something else that struck me when rereading this chapter is that, no matter who’s thinking about Szeth, he’s always thought of as a “creature” or a “monster,” never as a “man.”
Nazrax @@@@@ 38 –
I don’t believe Adolin was suicidal at any point in time. Yes, he is angry. But I don’t believe he wants to die simply because he cannot defeat Szeth. What made you think of suicide-by-assassin?
jeremyguebert @29
I like that theory, it has a nice symmetry to it.
Hi guys! It’s probably been almost a year but I’m back. Having a new baby around greatly increases my reading time.
On the chapter- I don’t find those kinds of “we’re not going to live but we’re fighting anyway” battles to be very heroic, just idiotic and wasteful. None of them did any good and they we’re just leaving their people leaderless.
@25 “I agree though that if he was aware during the feast Gavilar would probably still be alice.”
I find that typo pretty funny :)
Fantastic chapter. Heroism from many (and yes, it all fits every definition of heroic I know), and it’s just plain awesome.
I don’t think Adolin bothered taking the time to think – he’d just seen his DAD get tossed into the sky to die. I doubt any of us would be particularly rational after witnessing the same thing, so complaints about his choices should at least take that fact into account.
As far as Kaladin claiming Szeth’s life, I give that a big fat “meh.” It’s pretty justified. He’s facing a mass-murderer, a man who can’t exactly be imprisoned, and a man who will clearly continue killing if he escapes. To me, there’s only one way to protect Dalinar – and countless other folks – from Szeth. And frankly, aside from all that, it was simply a freaking awesome line.
I don’t know if Dalinar would have been able to save Gavilar or not. I tend to think not – Szeth was hit in the face because of his own overly aggressive move – a move he likely would not have made when facing both shard bearers. But regardless, whether his epiphany was true or not, it allowed him to forgive himself. In the end, it puts him into a more healthy state of mind – and that’s a good thing, regardless of the level of truth involved.
Re: “… as I now claim your life.” – Remember back in chapter 76 — 8 days ago, book time — Dalinar told Kaladin, “I can’t imprison him — Shardbearers are above that, and he’d cut his way out anyway. Either you execute a Shardbearer, or you leave him free.”
Whether or not Kaladin was feeling vengeful about anything, he had been given a firm lesson: there is only one way to stop a Shardbearer. You can’t disable him (Kaladin had watched Szeth heal during the earlier fight), you can’t imprison him. You kill him, or you let him go. Since “letting him go” meant letting him continue to kill people, that option is off the table.
And it’s a freaking awesome line. :)
@39 Perhaps I wasn’t as clear as I could have been. I was trying to contrast Dalinar’s actions with Adolin’s. When Dalinar charges into battle, it’s to save Roion and his men, and he has a good chance to achieve his goal while not dying. When Adolin goes after Szeth, he’s doing it for revenge, and he’s guaranteeing his own death.
My reading of the epigraph is that it does refer to Hoid, with Adrotagia’s mention of Mraize as a possibity being a misdirection by Sanderson. Hoid is the confusing player of word games who is a mysterious, insightful, and influential wanderer. The world of possibilities opens to the prophetic Taravangian contemplating Hoid, yet he shies from its implications. I see this as Taravangian envisaging the possibility that Hoid may yet bring about Odium’s downfall, but is not prepared to accept it, being gripped in an Odium induced state of mind. My conclusion about the evil force behind the diagram is due to the evil it displays in counseling Taravangian to become the ruler of the world, at whatever cost in lives without indicating how such rule is to going to save the rest of humanity. A more obvious and less evil alternative is to act like the Lord Ruler in the Mistborn series in providing hidden, well-stocked places of refuge for such remnants.